Curse

Dronte · Jan 25, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraaz

Fear me balancing was great from a-net. Was about time tho.
The aura nerf is kinda stupid, cause you already nerfed it once, making it last to max 13 sec, and now to 10 sec? I mean its kinda getting underpowered...

About time? It was way too late. Iwayerz owned many teams, and got their rank6,9 or whatever. Anyways, I still dont think zerg was really imba, just you had to know how to handle it. But many players didnt know how to do it, so fame rain was sure for iway.

LifesRestorer · Jan 25, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

there was too much defense and the offence rested on the power of one skill (fear me)

with that nerfed there is no reason to play iway. yes it survives but it will no longer be able to beat (semi-decent) teams. EVER.

Randvek · Jan 25, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I'm not entirely sure why taking a fairly noob-ish build that has moderate success and turning it into one that has very little success is good for balance. Could someone explain that to me? Heaven forbid we have widespread successful builds you can pug.

xx hells paladin xx · Jan 25, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I kinda like the Nerf of fear me, now it may be possible to pug balanced for people that aren't r9+

wuzzman · Jan 25, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by xx hells paladin xx

I kinda like the Nerf of fear me, now it may be possible to pug balanced for people that aren't r9+

yeah, but as you might soon notice non r9+ legoways still fails against anything that isn't legoway.....

Lorekeeper · Jan 25, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randvek

I'm not entirely sure why taking a fairly noob-ish build that has moderate success and turning it into one that has very little success is good for balance. Could someone explain that to me? Heaven forbid we have widespread successful builds you can pug.

Let me try to explain

1) mindless builds that grant moderate success provide easy pugging for mindless players who want access to success regardless of their skill.

2) a steady supply of mindless builds gives these players no opportunity to try out less mindless builds that might improve their puggability.

3) turning successful mindless builds into not so successful mindless builds might hopefully give bad pug players a chance to explore the games more 'thought' requiring builds.

4) more experience running proper builds turns your average buttonmashing pug player into a better one.

5) as more average quality buttonmash players improve... you get more chance to form a proper balanced pug.

6) more balanced pugs gives average pug players more experience at proper builds

7) more pugs experienced at playing proper builds = more pugs able to defeat mindless buttonmashing builds.

8) more defeats for mindless buttonmashing builds = less incentive for pugs to run them.

9) less mindless buttonmash builds in HA = GOOD

On topic:

Seems to be far less iway pugs forming and when i do face iways they dont tend to do very much pressure. Although i did face a zergway with 4 paragons, 1 DA, 1 expel, 1 SoR and 1 SoP... very annoying to fight but i would say that these are just full of stubborn players who just wont let go of their favourite buttonmashing builds.

One nite i saw alot of Rspike teams, various types, rtw punishing with fast cast orders, nightmare weapon with orders, nightfall brutal weapon version... iway served a good purpose to filter out builds like iway (since they struggled vs the fear me spam)...

I see more spiritways forming, but to be honest they are free fame for most good teams. I also see more hexteams... which is a good thing because for a long time we did not see migraine mesmers in HA and alot of HA monks had not felt the pleasure of their attention (introduces monks to preveil and fake casting).

I see alot of mass aoe dmg spikes with mindblast eles and rodgorts invocation spam (spirit bond ftw) and modded legoways with different frontline spike leads (a/d, d/a d/e varieties)...

bit too soon to tell where all these zergway players are going to go... we shall see soon

im betting my money on spiritway/paraway/rspike

leeky baby · Jan 25, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Let me try to explain

1) mindless builds that grant moderate success provide easy pugging for mindless players who want access to success regardless of their skill.

2) a steady supply of mindless builds gives these players no opportunity to try out less mindless builds that might improve their puggability.

3) turning successful mindless builds into not so successful mindless builds might hopefully give bad pug players a chance to explore the games more 'thought' requiring builds.

4) more experience running proper builds turns your average buttonmashing pug player into a better one.

5) as more average quality buttonmash players improve... you get more chance to form a proper balanced pug.

6) more balanced pugs gives average pug players more experience at proper builds

7) more pugs experienced at playing proper builds = more pugs able to defeat mindless buttonmashing builds.

8) more defeats for mindless buttonmashing builds = less incentive for pugs to run them.

9) less mindless buttonmash builds in HA = GOOD

What he said <3

wuzzman · Jan 25, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I was wondering where lorekeeper was lurking. Average pugger has three choices. EoE bomb, heroway, and finally randomway. heroway doesn't make it past UW, EoE bomb might get you 6 fame, and randomway doesn't make it past the zaishen, unless your doing griefing randomway, where you have a/me with shadowform then you might, just might, make it to halls after an hour of play.

now as much as I respect lorekeeper, he listed 9 things that won't happen in the real world. It kinda reminds me of some politicians easy bake oven economic plans. "Sure we will raise taxes to astronomic levels to fund blank check projects. But who cares the taxpayers can afford."

elektra_lucia · Jan 25, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Average pugger has any choice, it's just they don't have patience.

wuzzman · Jan 26, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

geez, why do players who don't pug think they know what puggers play....

Phe Belladona · Jan 26, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

i pug and i would normally end up in some silly AoE derv thingy or legoway these are not what you suggested wuzzperson

and yes elektra is right it just takes time for these to form so they can be pugged just, as said, puggers rarely have patience.

TaCktiX · Jan 26, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I don't PUG much because it's hard for me to join the R6+ groups I can play well with (still haven't gotten my R5, I'm lazy beyond belief). Sorry if you hate thinking a R4 is in your group, but R4+ balanced groups typically suck hard. If I'm playing at the R6 level, I feel I should play with R6's. Friends list ftw!

Back on topic, I haven't hit HA yet since the nerf (schoolwork ftl), but considering how little true pressure Zergway was on my ability to monk prior to nerf, now they're likely a complete joke. Maybe an occasional DChop will torch Healing Seed or WoH, but that's if they're lucky.

Spiritway will likely come back in a small amount, but the weakened state it is in will move people off of it fast. Same with Heroway, heroless or otherwise.

I'm seeing like Lore said earlier that there will be more ele-heavy balanced spike with a frontline leading with a deep wound. Any frontline caller worth a crud can bring a bunch of eles to respectable spiking capacity. True balanced groups I'm not seeing as PUGs, sadly.

With higher-rank groups I predict that RSpike will maintain popularity if not gain a bit, dual derv or anything based on the Rt/Mo splinter/Strength of Honor build will grow, and insistence on a mesmer of some variety in the group.

wuzzman · Jan 26, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

i pug and i would normally end up in some silly AoE derv thingy or legoway these are not what you suggested wuzzperson

and yes elektra is right it just takes time for these to form so they can be pugged just, as said, puggers rarely have patience.

average pugger...

bogatyr22 · Jan 26, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

I see more spiritways forming, but to be honest they are free fame for most good teams. I also see more hexteams... which is a good thing because for a long time we did not see migraine mesmers in HA and alot of HA monks had not felt the pleasure of their attention (introduces monks to preveil and fake casting).

because hexways arent just mindless button mash........

as for this change meh havent affected me in the slightest legoway still stomps nearly everyone

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 26, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Hexway is not mindless button mash.

Son Of The Axe · Jan 26, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

uuhhh maybe not "mindless" but definitely not as skill consuming as a good balanced. the problem most ppl have with it is its not "active" play and more passive.

btw d-chop > devastating hammer

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 26, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son Of The Axe

uuhhh maybe not "mindless" but definitely not as skill consuming as a good balanced. the problem most ppl have with it is its not "active" play and more passive.

btw d-chop > devastating hammer

1) You're wrong.
2) Please stfu about that, you're not good.

FoxBat · Jan 26, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

I guess HA has its own standards. Remembering all the QQing when hexway was dominating GvG.

elektra_lucia · Jan 26, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Depends what ones view of balance is.

Quote:

Fear me wasn't overpowered at all. If I lost from zergway it was cause I couldn't kill them. Or because something important got dchoped/shot after a long time.

Aura is still a very good skill, it just was better before.

Fear me aids d-chop.

Son Of The Axe · Jan 26, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

1) You're wrong.
2) Please stfu about that, you're not good.

"you're wrong" is not a valid answer please elaborate, and don't be sour cause you got beat down.